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Flonk · Newbie

Help Identifying possible Sheaffer pen

Frank · Admin

Welcome to The Community!

I'm not sure what brand that pen is. It looks like a Wearever Combo pen that I had at one time. Maybe a pic of the nib would help! What exactly does the nib say on it?

Frank

Chthulhu · Rawr.

I repaired your links; they were all going to the last image. Are there no markings on the nib?

Flonk · Newbie

Well I just purchased it, and its being shipped to me, so I don't have a nib closeup right now. I figured Id snag it regardless do to a really low selling price and not enough time to ask.
And thanks Chthulhu for fixing the links, I hadn't noticed they were broken.

-- Edited by Flonk on Sunday 28th of March 2010 12:15:52 PM

Chthulhu · Rawr.

No problem. And I agree: if the price was low enough, it doesn't really matter who the maker is.

DWL · ***

Thats neither a sheaffer nor a wearever. It's a "southern pen co" combo from the mid/late 40's. The nib is plated junk & if your going to restore it, scrap it & find a decent 14K vintage nib to drop in. A good candidate would be a waterman or wahl from the 40's. IIRC, these fit the best in those sections.

Flonk · Newbie

^Thanks for the info!
Do you think a southern co pen is worth restoring with a new nib? I haven't been able to find much info on their quality.

DWL · ***

No problem, thats why I'm here. IMHO, nearly every pen is worth an attempt at restoring. I had the worlds largest collection of wearever's, another 3rd tier manufacturer like your Southern. It all depends on what level of investment your willing to put into it. If you do it yourself your in it for the cost of a nib & sac and gain repair experience. If you have someone else do it your in it for the cost of the nib & generally about $30 bucks or so for their time/labor. Which easily exceeds the $15-20 the pen is worth in a restored condition (excluding the 14K nib cost).

If you haven't tried your hand at restoration, I'd say this is the perfect example to begin with. A basic lever filler like this is very easy to handle & being the first to use a pen after 50+ years of languishing in a drawer is pretty danged cool, not to mention the awesome sense of accomplishment you get when your finished. Resurrecting a pen from the grave is always a good thing in my book.

I've been a fan of lower end pens from the very beginning of my pen obsession. I've seen some real dogs come out as superb writers with a little time & effort. Also, some of the celluloid used in the lower end pens are simply stunning. Take a look at some of the wearevers I posted in the 3rd tier forum.

So to sum up, yes it's worth it if you do the work yourself, not so much if someone else tackles the job.

Flonk · Newbie

Thanks, thats really what I wanted to hear!
Would you say that its smart to replace the sac if its still functioning with a new one? Im assuming that do to age using an old pen with an old sac could result in rupturing.
Also when replacing the nib (im rather new it this) how exactly can I figure out what 14k nib will fit, is it fairly universal or am I going to need a certain measurement.

Edit:
Is this what I need?
http://cgi.ebay.com/1920s-Watermans-Ideal-solid-14KT-gold-medium-nib_W0QQitemZ290417269458QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439e37dad2

-- Edited by Flonk on Monday 29th of March 2010 07:47:56 AM

DWL · ***

"Would you say that its smart to replace the sac if its still functioning with a new one? Im assuming that do to age using an old pen with an old sac could result in rupturing."

I'll answer your question with one of my own. Would you feel safe driving a car with 50 year old tires?

Me either...lol.

"When replacing the nib (im rather new it this) how exactly can I figure out what 14k nib will fit"

There are ranges of sizes, like the waterman #2 nib in your link above (which should most likely fit btw, but without seeing the southern nib, I cant be 100% positive, but chances are good it will) Nibs are friction set into the section. Vintage nibs aren't the same thickness from tine to tail, if you were to flatten one out you will see the tine end is thicker than the tail. So keeping that in mind small/mediumish sized nibs like that one will fit a variety of section/feed combinations. In the end though it comes down to trial and error. This is one reason to start building up a bin of stray parts from pens that are too far gone, so you can have options to choose from & find the nib/feed combo that works best with that particular set up, if yo catch my meaning.

Sorry for the ramble, I didn't sleep much at all last pm & I'm feeling a bit loopy this morning.

DWL · ***

BTW, that New york #2 is a $40-50 nib if you can scoop it for cheap, your way ahead of the game. it's more likely than not a pretty flexible nib & you may run into flow issues. The volume of ink it needs to flow/write properly may not be supplied by the feed. That and the volume of the combo pens is about 1/2 of a regular pen so refilling will be a lot more common with that set up. I'd suggest going with a rigid nib that wont need such a high volume of flow. A smaller nib from an eversharp skyline or a sheaffer #5 feather touch may be a better choice.

Flonk · Newbie

Thanks so much for the help,
Im looking at bidding on a vintage Eversharp Skyline:
http://cgi.ebay.com/VTG-EVERSHARP-Skyline-Fountain-PEN-Black-14K-Nib-WRITES_W0QQitemZ330417138017QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4cee656961

As for pen sacs would you recommend I just buy a small assortment and use the one with the best fit, or is there an efficient way to find which model inc sac will fit the best?

DWL · ***

Thats a great skyline & honestly i wouldnt harvest the nib in it for a lesser pen. I'd look for one with a broken clip as thats one of the more common 'break point' on them. The strap that gos over the top of the derby is the weak point. I'd just scoop that one up & restore it straight out. Skylines are excellent pens.

Hold tight for a few days until my 2 big parts lots come in & I'll see what I have in there that will fit. Another option would be a steel nib. Look for a sheaffer school pen & harvest the nib from one of those & see if it fits.

For sacs I'd talk to Martin at http://www.woodbin.ca/ IIRC, he has a selection/assortment.

For tools talk to Giovanni at http://www.Tryphon.it he's got everything you'll need.

To size the sac properly, be sure the barrel is clear of the old sac remnants and dry fit a sac in there. if it rubs the inner barrel walls it's too large. There needs to be a slight air space between the sac & barrel walls. If your sac is too large & touches the walls, the heat from your hand will transfer through the barrel & sac and expand the ink inside & you'll get ink blobs/drips.

When you cut it to length, drop the sac in the barrel again, mark the spot where the sac exits the barrel, then lay the section next to the barrel at the point where it would be if it were installed in the barrel. Then cut the sac off at the nipple.

This may sound confusing, but it'll make sense when you have all of the parts in play.

Flonk · Newbie

A couple quick questions, what are the pros/cons to a steel nib? Also upon looking at the pen sac seller you sent me, is it advisable to get a latex sac? Do they last longer/more resistant?
And if you do get a suitable nib for my Southern co. pen I would be very interested in purchasing it.

-- Edited by Flonk on Tuesday 30th of March 2010 07:38:24 PM

-- Edited by Flonk on Tuesday 30th of March 2010 07:57:49 PM

Chthulhu · Rawr.

Latex is the standard material for pen sacs, and will last a good long time if not mistreated. They do tend to impart a mild sulfur odor, and can discolor some vintage pen body materials.

Silicone sacs are less subject to chemical changes from the ink and less likely to chemically affect the pen's materials, but tend to be thicker and stiffer, thus putting a bit more mechanical strain on the filler (lever, pivot, j-bar) and consequently on the barrel of the pen.

DWL · ***

This is one of those really hard to answer questions. Ask 5 people and you'll get a dozen different answer.

The only part of the nib that touches the page is the tipping material. Neither steel nor gold, but a composite alloy material.

Generally/broadly speaking, steel isn't as flexible as gold. But in some rare cases, there are flexible steel nibs, but those are pretty uncommon & I'll skip past those for now.

Vintage gold nibs come in a couple of 'standard' styles. rigid, semi flexible and flexible (the latter having a couple of 'sub variations' like super flex, wet noodle and such)

Pretty much what it comes down to in my book, is how much flexibility (IE: line width variation) the nib material is going to give you. If flex is a must have for you, then a vintage flexi nib is the way to go,. but as I mentioned above, a flex nib may not be the best for this particular pen. If you dont care much for flex, then I'd go the much less expensive route with a quality steel nib.

There are a lot of great quality steel nibs out there that you can score for next to nothing. The sheaffer school pens being one and the wearever pennant nibs being another. I've used these for stand in/replacement nibs on 3rd tier pens for years & am almost always very happy with how the pen writes in the end.

~~~~~~~

The latex sacs are the standard for repair. Silicon sacs last a lot longer but, in my experience, have a higher, 'pop off the nipple' rate than do latex, because shellac doesnt adhere to them as well as latex. A lot of folks use silicon sacs to try & prevent discoloration in vintage pens. As mike said, sulfur out gassing discolors hard rubber and celluloid. This takes decades in a sealed environment to happen & not really an immediate concern. I believe i once read that the sulfur used in vintages sacs has been replaced with a new component, but have no clue what it is. (I may be wrong, so take it for the fragmented memory it is..lol) I'd simply go with a selection of various size latex sacs & experiment/practice repair on lower end pens like this one until you feel comfortable taking on more valuable pieces.

Keep your eyes on the sales board. i'll put together an inexpensive lot of unrestored vintage low enders that you can practice your repair skills on & not have to worry about killing a higher quality pen.